Topics: Australia-US relationship; Albanese should meet with Trump;
11:15AM AEDT
14 November 2024
Kieran Gilbert: Let’s go live to the Shadow Foreign Minister, Simon Birmingham. Thanks for your time. So much happening in the wake of the US election. I know you were pretty much on the front line, the first in the first iteration of a Trump presidency with those tariffs and as trade minister trying to avoid Australia copping it. I wonder what’s your read now given you’ve been around this for a long time seeing who he’s appointing to his cabinet, is there a situation where, regardless of how good our diplomacy is, Australia just won’t be as lucky this time around. When it comes to tariffs, it seems a much more hard line set up we’re going to face.
Simon Birmingham: G’day, Kieran. It’s good to be with you. Look, I don’t think we should take in any way a pessimistic approach. We should go in absolutely firm about not only Australia’s national interest, but what is in the collective interest of Australia and the United States. And it is in the US interest for Australia to be as strong as possible as one of the United States closest allies. As certainly their closest ally in this part of the world. And that should lend significant weight in an administration that, yes, has an economic agenda, but also very clearly has a security agenda as well that aligns in significant ways with that of Australia. Now, in the first Trump administration, Australia did secure exemptions from tariffs on steel and aluminium, and Malcolm Turnbull led the way as prime minister, supported by Joe Hockey at the time as our ambassador in the US. And I can recall subsequently, as trade minister to Scott Morrison, literally handing Donald Trump a graph showing the trade surplus that the United States enjoys with Australia on some of the more recent data that I’ve looked at. That’s still a trade surplus, running at around $27 billion in the US favour. Those facts matter, and it’s important that Australia is able to put that evidence directly in front of the president and his key advisers to demonstrate that the US has nothing to fear from Australia, but everything to gain from a strong Australia in terms of the alignment of our interests and how we both pursue them.
Kieran Gilbert: The Prime Minister took a leaf out of your book then in his first conversation with Donald Trump. Do you welcome that where he raised the the trade surplus that the US has? So, he’s obviously seen that worked for you and adopted it himself. And are you surprised that he hasn’t been more positive about the idea of making a beeline to Mar-A-Lago and meeting Donald Trump? Because it looks like from what we’re hearing from our colleague Andrew Clennell in Lima, that’s not going to happen. The Prime Minister isn’t considering diverting to Florida to meet the president elect.
Simon Birmingham: Well, Kieran, I think it is important the Prime Minister is on the front foot with those facts and those points, and the fact that he did so in his first call is welcome and is smart. And of course, there are other points that are critical to make in terms of how AUKUS aligns. And yesterday at the National Press Club, I spelled out some of those strong arguments that we need to take that there’s no other US ally investing like Australia is in complementary defence capabilities, in a complementary defence industrial capability and critically in US defence industrial capability as well. So, Australia is on a really strong footing there to make sure those arguments are heard. But I was surprised by the strength with which the Prime Minister dismissed the idea of trying to add on to his current trip to South America, a trip to Florida to seek to see President Trump. Now, I wouldn’t expect him to canvass all of that publicly, but to dismiss it out of hand is seemingly to miss an opportunity to get in the door at an early stage. We saw published remarks by President Prabowo of Indonesia indicating he would fly wherever it took from his meetings with President Biden in Washington on his way to the APEC and G20 meetings, to be able to see President Trump. And frankly, our Prime Minister should be showing similar initiative.
Kieran Gilbert: So can it wait till after the election? Can it wait? Does it matter if it waits till after the election? We’re going to have an election in the next few months anyway. Might be prime minister Dutton heading to Washington.
Simon Birmingham: And I’ve got no doubt that in terms of Peter Dutton’s schedule of international engagements, it would be a very high priority for him if we were to win the next election and Peter to become prime minister. But Anthony Albanese is Australia’s prime minister. He says that their government’s going to run full term, which would be all the way through until May next year. That will then be some months into a Trump administration, and if waited until after that election, it would potentially be more than six months into that Trump administration before Anthony Albanese even met with Donald Trump, somebody who he has never met before. And so I think seizing the initiative now would have been a wise thing for the prime minister to do. It’s potentially not too late for him to do so-
Kieran Gilbert: Particular given the ambassador is under the pump as well, and Malcolm Turnbull blaming News Corporation for pushing that one. And I know that obviously News Corporation owns this organisation where we’re broadcasting today. But to be fair, the hourglass was tweeted by the deputy chief of staff to Donald Trump.
Simon Birmingham: Well, look, there are lots of factors there. I think the facts on this one are that Anthony Albanese said initially he was never going to appoint Kevin Rudd. He then chose to do so after Donald Trump was a declared candidate for the presidency, knowing full well what was on the public record. They were calculations and risks that Anthony Albanese chose to make. Now our approach is to wish Kevin Rudd nothing but success. That’s what we’ve done in the role. And indeed I’ve been public and Peter Dutton’s been public, congratulating him on the outcomes he’s got. Outcomes he’s achieved through Congress in areas such as easing defence export restrictions between our nations to enable AUKUS to succeed. And he’s got those outcomes by working across the aisle with Democrats and Republicans. And that’s a good indicator that he can do so. And we want to continue to wish him success. But ultimately, the job is bigger than any one person. And it is crucial that Australia is in a position where our voice is heard and our influence is effective. And Kevin Rudd and Anthony Albanese are the only two people really who can judge that most effectively and come to a conclusion over the coming months as to whether that is achievable.
Kieran Gilbert: We’re almost out of time. But James Patterson also tweeted some criticisms of Donald Trump in years gone by. My colleague Trudy McIntosh reporting that just in the last 15 minutes or so, things like calling it lunacy, Trump’s approach to different things, and various other critiques on Twitter. This will be something where you’ll have a number of your own colleagues would have made historical statements in regard to Donald Trump as well. So I guess the question is it disqualifying?
Simon Birmingham: No, it’s not automatically disqualifying. And that was the case with the first Trump administration where certain colleagues had comments on the record. I personally was critical around the January 6th events that occurred four years ago. And of course, the threat to democracy at that time. And so there are many different attributes of comments that people have. And we can see around President Trump himself, J.D. Vance, the incoming vice president, the incoming secretary of state, others in his administration have been critical at points in the past. And so that shouldn’t disqualify. But equally, the only point we’ve made is that it is ultimately up to Anthony Albanese and Kevin Rudd to ensure that he can do the job on Australia’s behalf, and we wish him success in doing that. But they’ve always got to put ultimately Australia’s interests first.
Kieran Gilbert: Quickly on the COP. You asked about that yesterday and you said you’re going to look at the evidence that the government puts forward. Will you also consider the fact that Pacific, our Pacific neighbours, this is a top priority for them, and particularly in the context of China’s assertiveness and attempt to influence our region. Is that something that will factor into your thinking when it comes to the idea of a Pacific COP, hosted by Australia and the Pacific?
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Kieren. Look, I think these are all valid points that clearly are part of an assessment. But the government needs to be clear and provide a lot more detail than it has done to date, which is essentially very scant on any detail about the nature of COP. It is proposing to hold the costs associated with that, the scale of the event, the numbers of people that it would be inviting and flying into Australia. All of those are issues that the government needs to actually come to the table and be up front about which, to date, they have not been.
Kieran Gilbert: Simon Birmingham, thanks for your time, I appreciate it.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Kieran. My pleasure.
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