Topics: Thank you and farewell.
08:05AM AEDT
29 November 2024
Jules Schiller: David Bevan has joined us in the studio to interview Simon Birmingham. Welcome, David.
David Bevan: Good morning, Jules. Good morning, Sonya. Simon Birmingham. Really significant figure in not only South Australian politics but national politics.
Sonya Feldhoff: And for a long time too.
David Bevan: For a very long time. I remember the first time I met Simon Birmingham, I was a lowly radio news ABC political reporter. He was a young staffer for Joan Hall, then state minister. I went on to be a lowly state political reporter for ABC news.
Sonya Feldhoff: And he hit the heights,
David Bevan: And he went on to be trade minister and finance minister, and was very much the public face of Scott Morrison’s miracle election win. You know, Scott Morrison, obviously he.
Jules Schiller: Was campaign manager was he, spokesperson?
David Bevan: He was the spokesperson for the party. So, after Scott Morrison, it was Simon Birmingham. He was the person that people saw throughout that campaign with that remarkable victory. So very much a significant figure, and he’s decided to call it quits. Good morning, Senator Simon Birmingham.
Simon Birmingham: Good morning. David. Sonia, Jules and most importantly, all of the marvellous 891 listeners across South Australia.
David Bevan: Why are you calling it quits?
Simon Birmingham: Well, David, because I couldn’t go on without.
Sonya Feldhoff: We did suspect that was the case, Senator.
Jules Schiller: Retiree radio, isn’t it? With David Bevan.
Simon Birmingham: It’s just infectious.
David Bevan: So, you look, you took a good, hard look at yourself in the mirror, and you thought the jagged pieces of my life will never be put back together again. Is that what you’re saying?
Simon Birmingham: That’s right. That the idea of not being tormented and challenged in interviews by David Bevan was too much for me to bear, and I thought, well, I just need to go in a whole new direction.
David Bevan: Okay, so what’s the real reason?
Simon Birmingham: Yeah, it is. It is the right time for me in my career and family, as you all said, in the lead in. It’s been a long time in politics. It has, in one form or another, I guess, being close to my whole working life in politics and nearly 18 years in the Senate. And at age 50, I either buckle down and see it out in some ways, or decide that I have another career in me and the opportunity to go and do something in finance and commercial sector that also has engagement with the Asia Pacific is an exciting one. And we’ll see a change in course, but hopefully one where I can still contribute to our state and to our nation, but in a more commercially oriented way.
Jules Schiller: In your farewell speech last night, Senator Simon Birmingham, you warned about immigration, about how we should embrace immigration rather than move away from it. You talked about evidence based health approaches. You talked about tribalism. This is basically everything that Donald Trump doesn’t stand for. Are you worried about the rise of Trumpism in Australia and maybe even the Liberal Party itself?
Simon Birmingham: I’m certainly worried, Jules, about the direction, in some ways, of populism and tribalism in politics and public discourse right around global democracies? And of course, that has an infectious element into Australia, that social media landscape that we live in nowadays and the way that people consume news and information. It does mean that type of tribalism, those type of populist instincts, can infect our politics. And I don’t think that’s healthy. I don’t think it brings our country together. And I think often it distracts us from the real things that make people’s lives better around maintaining the strength of our economy and an effective national security for our country.
David Bevan: Have you ever seen the Senate as rowdy, as dysfunctional, as nasty as you’ve seen it this week?
Simon Birmingham: I’ve seen some pretty big moments in the Senate. Like I could go back to when Pauline Hanson chose to wear a burqa into the chamber. That was pretty provocative and elicited quite rightly, strong opinions, and Lidia Thorpe’s behaviour quite rightly elicited strong opinions and strong condemnation from the Senate as well, that when we get to the point where people are throwing things at one another, you know it’s not a children’s playground and that behaviour is not tolerated there either. This is the Australian parliament and so yes, I did give some messages in my farewell remarks last night, pointedly directed at colleagues. You get enormous privileges as a member of Parliament and parliamentary privilege itself. You have a platform like no other to convey a message and to argue your case. And you don’t need stunts, you don’t need attention seeking behaviour. You need to be smart enough to argue your cause and do it well. And that’s what people should step up and do.
David Bevan: Your opposite number very much. You know, if this was a marvel superhero universe, your nemesis would be Penny Wong. And she paid a great tribute to you. Yet it wasn’t that long ago, in the federal election of 2019, she refused to shake your hand. She would shake, I think it was Cory Bernardi’s hand and Sarah Hanson-Young shook hands. She acknowledged them, but not you. But you – what are we to make of this? Sometimes just passions flare, and then people remember to, you know, their better angels or is something else going on? Is it a more toxic place?
Simon Birmingham: I, really intensely dislike the painting of the parliament as a toxic workplace, because I think that is unfair on what is still the vast majority, and particularly not just MPs, but the vast majority of parliamentary staff who slogged their guts out, work long hours, actually also have fun and enjoy working in that building and don’t deserve to have their experience besmirched by the behaviour of a few, even when sometimes they have been shocking incidences. Obviously, we saw alleged in the last parliament, but in terms of the behaviour of the crossbench and some of the attention seeking from fringe senators of different persuasions, I think that is getting worse. And it is about playing to the social media grab. I learnt as a minister that often times when I was getting questions, particularly from the crossbench, the best response was the dead bat response, because anything I did that showed a degree of enlivening the debate would be manipulated into a little social media grab that would be fed out to the Greens base to completely distort the overall picture of what I was doing and that’s one of the real challenges.
Sonya Feldhoff: That sounds like a man who’s slightly jaded by the last couple of decades. Is there any sense of that, Senator?
Simon Birmingham: No. Look, I mean, I leave really, I’m really proud, I think, to have had some great achievements and school funding reform, different trade deals that I was able to strike playing a role in some of the most momentous decisions of our country during the Covid 19 pandemic and the AUKUS partnership. So I leave very satisfied there. I do, though, see threats and challenges to democratic systems. I’d say not unique to Australia. You know, these are global trends. And as the shadow foreign minister these last couple of years, I’ve watched them emerge in European democracies as well as in the US campaign we just saw. And ultimately it needs, especially the major party leaders, to stand up, call it out, and also to present a compelling case, hopefully to drive people to think back to choosing who is going to govern our country and reflecting on those major party choices. Because I all too often see that fringe players and the like are where the greater divisiveness and trouble comes from.
David Bevan: But who’s going to replace you? You are a leading moderate. Who’s going to replace you in the Senate, the conservative group within the South Australian Liberal Party. Their numbers have never been stronger. The expectation is that and it will be the state executive that chooses. So who’s going to get your place?
Simon Birmingham: Well, David. Firstly, it should not be the state executive that chooses. It should be the state council.
David Bevan: Sorry, the state council. Well, the state council, both executive and the council are dominated by the conservatives. So, we’re talking about the same people.
Simon Birmingham: I wouldn’t contest with that based on recent internal elections. But there are provisions in emergencies for the state executive to choose. And this is not an emergency. They have time over the next couple of months.
David Bevan: But it’s the same group of people. Executive council. It’s the conservatives. Are they going to get to pick or will the moderates have a replacement in you?
Simon Birmingham: Well, David. I think I’d make a couple of points there. Obviously, the State Council and its membership will choose and who that will be, I don’t know, but I don’t contest your analysis of who has the balance of power at present. And so what might be likely. Now, there’s always been an ebbing and flowing, you know, when Robert Hill, who was a significant moderate leader and great mentor of mine, retired, he was replaced by Cory Bernardi. Then when Jeannie Ferris sadly passed away, a more conservative senator, she was replaced by me. So, there’s always been an ebbing and flowing, and I think people would be wrong to write off the Liberal Party in maintaining its custodianship of liberal traditions as well as conservative traditions, but it is essential that it does so. If we end up in a winner takes all scenario across the board, then that will be a betrayal of the winning formula that John Howard struck. And that would be counterproductive to the interests of not just the party, but the state in terms of having effective choice.
David Bevan: So, it’s not the end of the world if a conservative takes your place, but it would be better for the party if it was a moderate.
Simon Birmingham: It’s not the end of the world, whoever takes my place. But it’s important over the long run that the Liberal Party remains a home to liberal and conservative values, because that’s what’s made us an effective party at being able nationally to govern Australia for close to 70% of the world of the post-World War Two era.
Jules Schiller: Now we know you’re about to jump on a flight. Simon Birmingham, you quoted John Stuart Mill.
Simon Birmingham: In Canberra, in fact. Back to Adelaide.
Jules Schiller: Back to Adelaide, you quoted John Stuart Mill said he was a, you know, one of your inspirations, obviously smaller government, economic conservative. But people are asking would you give any advice on the tax line to the South Australian Liberal Party, who obviously didn’t have a great result in black? They were talking about late term abortion for a long time during that campaign. Would you give advice to them on culture wars and getting back to sort of John Stuart Mill type philosophies?
Simon Birmingham: Well, I think my earlier comments, Jules, about the tribalism and the weaponization of issues and abortion is one of those. And to Peter Dutton’s great credit, you know, when challenged with that issue federally, he was very clear in saying it has no place federally that he’s been, I think, clear in respecting the type of right to choice for women’s reproductive rights that most Australian women want. And so I give him credit there. And it’s never a help to have those distractions when the advice for the SA Liberal Party, as it would be for any, is to offer a strong and compelling choice. And that’s what Peter’s going to do federally at the next election, with clear policies such as the zero emissions nuclear energy one, nobody will be able to say it’s a small target alternative. You know, he’s going to give people and Australians the right to choose and to choose on very significant issues.
Jules Schiller: Simon Birmingham, we’ll let you jump on that flight and come back to South Australia. Lots of nice text coming through. Who appreciated your work over the years. Simon Birmingham, thanks for joining us this morning.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks guys. It’s always been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
[ENDS]