Topics: Labor prolonging student debts; US elections; Australia-US relationship; Trump/Ukraine; Safety for politicians; Flight upgrades;
08:20AM AEDT
3 November 2024
Andrew Clennell: Well, joining me live, also from Adelaide, is the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister, Simon Birmingham, ahead of this US election. I’ll get to that in a minute. Simon Birmingham, thanks for joining me. Let’s start with Labor’s announcement on a cut in HECS for former university students. 20% pretty sizeable cut. What’s your reaction to that? Might the opposition match it?
Simon Birmingham: Good morning, Andrew. Andrew, I think the initial reaction is where’s the money coming from? When Anthony Albanese was elected as a government, he inherited an improving budget position that’s enabled the couple of budget surpluses we’ve seen. But the actions of this government, the big spending decisions of this government, have created a worsening budget decision, a deteriorating position that will see higher deficits in the years ahead. And if Anthony Albanese intends to turn the next election campaign into some great big cash splash, where is the money coming from for Labor? Or are in fact these very same students going to be saddled with higher debts, greater government debt, and ultimately higher taxes to pay for Anthony Albanese’s election spending.
Andrew Clennell: So from the sound of that, it sounds like you wouldn’t. You’re sceptical about it. You might not be inclined to say, look, we’ll match this promise at election time.
Simon Birmingham: Well, this isn’t real reform. This doesn’t change the student fees that somebody starts uni next year pays. This is simply a cash splash from Anthony Albanese, an attempt at trying to con or hoodwink an electorate ahead of an election from a government who has ultimately overseen the inflationary environment that has put so much pressure on young Australians and ultimately all Australian households feeling that inflationary pressure, and they’re feeling it now worse than the rest of the world. Again, when this government was elected, Australia’s inflation performance was better than most comparable economies. Now it’s worse than most comparable economies, and that means Australians are facing higher interest rates and higher inflation lasting for longer, putting greater pressure on those household budgets.
Andrew Clennell: The other measures here lifting the threshold on repayments, do you support or oppose them?
Simon Birmingham: Well, again, I think my colleague Sarah Henderson yesterday was pretty clear. The part of the problem with that is you’re basically just deferring and kicking the can down the road for students, meaning they will accumulate more interest and more debt and from that take longer to repay those debts. I think it’s also important that the way this system works, people are actually making a careful, considered choice in relation to their university pathways, and they are conscious that there is an expectation of making a contribution to repay, not having that can kicked down the road in ways that that ultimately potentially leave them worse off, but also worsen the situation for other taxpayers who will ultimately have to foot the bill of these decisions.
Andrew Clennell: Let me ask about the US election, then. What are you expecting and what will it mean for the world?
Simon Birmingham: Well, this is like every American election, clearly a very important one. Now we as a country need to work with whoever is elected, and we need to be prepared to work with whoever is elected. I hope the Albanese government has got comprehensive plans there for how they ensure that Australia’s interests are safeguarded. Our interests, of course, in the security domain, AUKUS, and how we ensure the strong bipartisanship that does exist around AUKUA is continued and therefore delivered upon. How we ensure the engagement of the US in our region is as strong as possible, and not just with Australia, but with all of our other regional partners that is so important. How we ensure that our trade interests are protected and that we seek to maintain from Australia’s position as open and liberal a trading environment as is possible. Because that’s been so important to our economic interests over a long period of time. We have quite a number of equities, and it’s critical that as strong as our relationship is, we don’t take any of those equities for granted in the way in which we engage with whoever the next US president and their administration may be.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think a Coalition government would be in a better position to work with the Trump administration than a Labor government?
Simon Birmingham: I think a Coalition government will be better placed to work with either US administration, because we’ve shown our great ability to be able to work so successfully over the years. I’m sure we will be that Australia’s relationship will, of course, always be in good order with the US. All governments have done that. But of course, I back ourselves to be able to achieve the strongest possible outcomes for Australia. And we saw that in the way in which Joe Hockey did so working as part of the Turnbull and Morrison governments to make sure that we received exemptions from tariffs and trade imposts under the first Trump administration. We saw it, though, equally working with a Democratic administration from the way in which Scott Morrison and the team were able to secure AUKUS. That was a deal between a Coalition government and the Biden administration, a Democratic administration. We’ve demonstrated the ability to work right across the board, of course, going all the way back to when Robert Menzies signed the ANZUS treaty all those years ago.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think the whole climate change and renewables issue would turn if Trump was elected?
Simon Birmingham: Well, I think president Trump in his first administration showed obviously the resolve in terms of his policy position to withdraw from Paris, and he’s indicated that he’d likely follow the same path in terms of withdrawing from that Paris agreement in a second administration. But there is clearly a huge investment around the world in terms of the technological changes. So how that would impact in terms of what it would mean for government policies and some of those policy approaches versus what it might mean for technology and investment in those technologies. We’d have to see. I expect the market would continue to still invest significantly, and you can see the way in which the likes of Bill Gates have now written and spoken extensively around the need to see those technologies invested in ways that make them truly cost competitive, to ensure that we can drive a lower emissions future right around the world, because that is what’s going to make it not only feasible for countries like the US or ourselves to undertake that change, but also critically for other countries, be it in Indonesia or an India or a China to make the change, they need to see it as being cost competitive and viable for their future. Clearly, we’re putting our policies on the table for the next election, critically, in terms of net zero emissions nuclear technologies.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think Kevin Rudd’s position is tenable if Trump gets re-elected?
Simon Birmingham: It will be up to Mr. Rudd to demonstrate his capacity to continue to do the job and do it as effectively as he has been to give him credit.
Andrew Clennell: So, a Coalition. So, I mean, I’ve spoken to Peter Dutton about this before, a few months ago. You’d be okay if he can demonstrate that he can work with. I mean, there’s two hypotheticals in this one, obviously, if not three. But, I mean, you’d be okay for him to continue as ambassador under a Coalition government if he was going okay?
Simon Birmingham: Andrew, the short answer there is. Yes. Kevin Rudd has worked the Congress hard and effectively, I would say, during his time as ambassador. We’ve got outcomes there in relation to AUKUS and changes to some of the export rules that are really important in terms of better integration of our defence industries. We want to see that type of momentum continue. Our assessment will be on what is in Australia’s best interests.
Andrew Clennell: Is that is that Peter Dutton’s view?
Simon Birmingham: And I trust that will be Kevin Rudd and Anthony Albanese’s assessment too.
Andrew Clennell: Is that Peter Dutton’s view to that? That Rudd could continue, that Rudd could continue. Have you spoken to him?
Simon Birmingham: Kevin Rudd is demonstrating – Andrew. Yes – and if Kevin Rudd is demonstrating that he is getting the job done and can do the job for a Coalition government with a Republican administration. Well, of course, then we will assess that on its merits. But ultimately, it’s about getting the job done in Washington and making sure that Australia’s influence is as strong as possible. Now, clearly, it’s well reported what Kevin has said in the past. Equally, we’ve seen him engage and try to build ties across the Republican Party and engage there in Congress. Whether that will be sufficient with an incoming Trump administration, I hope that Kevin Rudd and Anthony Albanese, if that proves to be the case, will be honest enough in terms of how they undertake that assessment and will consider Australia’s best interests, because that’s what we will be putting forward regardless of Kevin Rudd’s political background.
Andrew Clennell: Okay. Briefly, do you think Donald Trump would seek to bring an end to the war in Ukraine? And is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Simon Birmingham: He’s said that he would, and bringing an end to the war is a good thing. What we want to see is a just outcome for Ukraine, and a just outcome for Ukraine is one where their country has confidence in its security and its sovereignty into the future. We cannot have a situation where Russia finishes this feeling emboldened in a stronger position and potentially repeating the type of horrors that we’ve seen in the last couple of years. And so, of course, we want to see an end to the war. We’d love to see an end to conflicts in all manner of different situations. But how you end those conflicts is critical and in this case, a just outcome for Ukraine, who was certainly not the aggressor in this case. Russia have been the aggressor. Russia have, of course, pursued this in a way that is a huge violation of Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty. But also, importantly, if they are allowed to feel victorious and to be in a situation where they feel empowered to do it again. It sends a terrible signal to other autocrats around the world right now.
Andrew Clennell: Late last week, Penny Wong, the foreign minister, bought a $3.4 million house in Adelaide. And you put a message on social media saying media shouldn’t reveal the house. What was that about?
Simon Birmingham: Safety and security for any politician, Andrew and media are free to report these things. We disclose our interests. There’s been plenty of discussion about declaration of interests. We disclose those. If you think it’s newsworthy, you report it. But when it comes to those safety or security considerations, it shouldn’t be reported in ways where it becomes all too easy for people to identify the precise address of a prominent member of parliament.
Andrew Clennell: Sure. Had Penny Wong spoken to you before you, before you ushered that tweet out there. Had Penny Wong spoken to you?
Simon Birmingham: Penny and I had no engagement whatsoever before I put that together. None at all.
Andrew Clennell: Do you have a similar issue with Anthony Albanese’s house purchase and where that’s located? Do you have the same view on that?
Simon Birmingham: Look, I think in terms of it being easily identifiable, arguably there are issues there. The one point of difference I’d make is, of course, whilst Anthony Albanese remains Australia’s prime minister, he is living in government provided and government secured houses. Sure. Penny Wong. Me. Anybody else. Peter Dutton. We’re all living in our private homes that are privately funded and provided. And of course, don’t necessarily come with those same security standards that of the Lodge or Kirribilli House.
Andrew Clennell: Let me ask about flight upgrades then. Do you have any problems on the Coalition side on this one? What’s your understanding around how many upgrades Bridget McKenzie hasn’t declared? Should she face penalty from Peter Dutton or David Littleproud if she hasn’t made all relevant declarations. In fact, if she’s made failed to make a number of declarations.
Simon Birmingham: Well, Andrew, it is a responsibility for us to make our declarations and, and we should be keeping those up to date. And if people have had administrative errors in their own undertakings or those of their offices, then they need to rectify and fix those. What is important about this debate, and where I’ve certainly kept all of my comments, is actually then about if there are areas of influence. How does an office holder in government actually influence, how is that government applying that influence and how does it influence their decisions? And in the case of Anthony Albanese, none of this really would have been a matter of public interest if it wasn’t for the decision this government took around Qatar Airways and their refusal to provide them with additional flight slots in and out of Australia. And Anthony Albanese has never been transparent about whether he or his office exercised influence over Catherine King’s decision to refuse those upgrades. We know that Catherine King gave the Virgin CEO every indication that she was about to approve them, and then suddenly the decision was delayed for months and then it was rejected. And there has never been a clear answer from the government about why it was rejected.
Andrew Clennell: Didn’t Paul Fletcher have some upgrades when he was in the transport infrastructure space as a minister?
Simon Birmingham: I’ve seen media reports of that. I can’t say that I’ve gone looking for those things. Paul, I don’t think has ever had responsibility for aviation policy, though.
Andrew Clennell: Simon Birmingham, thanks for your time.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, Andrew. My pleasure.
[ENDS]