Topics: Lidia Thorpe;
0805 ACDT
24 October 2024
David Penberthy: Well, let’s kick Breaking at 8 off by listening to what Lidia Thorpe had to say about the oath that she swore, because it is the subject of today’s breaking an oath.
[EXCERPT]
Lidia Thorpe: I swore allegiance to the Queen’s hairs. If you listen close enough. It wasn’t her ears. It was her hairs that I was, uh, um, giving my allegiance to. And now that, you know, they’re not no longer here. I don’t know where that stands.
[END OF EXCERPT]
David Penberthy: Well, a lot of people are asking the question, how is it that if she’s saying that she didn’t technically swear the oath properly, does that create a set of circumstances whereby her presence in the Parliament might not actually be legally valid or constitutional, whatever the right term is? Well, the federal opposition are actually seeking legal advice about this. Bridget McKenzie, the Nationals senator, had some very strong comments to say yesterday about the fact that Lidia Thorpe, who should be stressed, is paid $260,000 a year to occupy the Parliament. I note too, yesterday a member of the Qantas Chairman’s Club as well. [Laughs] So not rejecting every aspect of the colonial experiment as she likes to call it. But we’ve got the Liberal Leader of the Opposition [in the Senate], Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Simon Birmingham on the line. Senator, good morning, and thank you so much for joining us this morning.
Simon Birmingham: Good morning guys, how’s your hair this morning?
David Penberthy: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. My hair is better than hers at the moment. So, you guys are getting legal advice about this? Do you think that there could actually be some sort of breach here?
Simon Birmingham: Look, firstly, I am loathing in some ways to talk about this because in the Senate there is an attention seeker and all of, you know, these antics and the way in which she just disrupts proceedings in the Senate, outside of the Senate. It is all just about attention seeking in so many grotesque ways. And of course, the more the debate goes on, the more unfortunately she probably revels in it. But, there is a serious aspect here and a couple of serious aspects. One is the constitutional aspect of section 42 of the Australian Constitution requires that a senator must make and subscribe the oath or affirmation of office before taking their seat in the Senate. Now, Senator Thorpe appears yesterday to have admitted, confessed, stated very plainly that she didn’t take the oath in affirmation of office as laid down in the Constitution. If that’s the case, it is a serious matter and Professor Anne Twomey, one of the nation’s leading constitutional law experts, has said this is at least a matter for the Senate President to have to review and look at whether she has complied with those constitutional obligations to take up her seat in the Senate. There’s an international precedent here, which is the fact that Sinn Fein MPs elected to the Parliament of Westminster in the UK, out of Northern Ireland, refused to take the oath of office and so they never actually take up their seat. They’re duly elected, but they never take up their seat because they have not subscribed to the oath of office as required in the UK.
David Penberthy: That’s interesting.
Simon Birmingham: It does appear to be some analogy here. And that is, of course, because they’re Irish republicans and they refuse to swear allegiance to the monarch, which again, is somewhat analogous to this circumstance.
David Penberthy: So, they were voted in, but they couldn’t actually attend Parliament. They couldn’t physically go into the chamber because they hadn’t sworn the oath?
Simon Birmingham: That’s right. And this this has gone on for many, many years and many, many parliaments in the UK. They keep winning their seats and with the voters knowing that they then won’t actually go in and participate in parliamentary proceedings.
Will Goodings: So, then they, are you saying, Senator, they don’t participate in any meaningful way. They’re not voting on things. It’s their position effectively becomes ceremonial?
Simon Birmingham: That’s right. My understanding is they also don’t take the normal salary just to answer the question that some listeners would have there, too. So, it becomes a significant point of protest. And of course, people are entitled to protest. Now Lidia Thorpe is entitled to protest. My concern about the way she goes about it. And indeed, let’s remember she was elected as a Greens senator. She’s there because of the Greens. And this pattern of behaviour is not unlike what other Greens senators have done. In this parliament we had Greens senators protest President Marcos Jr of the Philippines during his joint address to parliament. Previously we had President Bush, George W Bush protested against by Greens senators during his address to the parliament. And we’ve now got a risk where if you’re a visiting leader from a foreign country, are you going to want to speak in the Australian parliament, or will you assess that the risk is potentially too great, that you’ll just be embarrassed in the proceedings, and that’s not good or healthy for our relations with other countries or dealing with visiting dignitaries either.
David Penberthy: Unless there’s a foolproof way we can make sure all the invitations get lost in the mail, you’d think that she’s going to keep rocking up and doing it because it’s her whole modus operandi, isn’t it?
Simon Birmingham: It is. Now, as I said, kind of attention seeking is as well. And the problem is, having these debates feeds into her desire just for the attention. But, we’ve got to deal with the serious issue of the constitutionality around a seat in the Senate and her occupying that position under the terms of the Constitution. And I think we have to have a serious look at least the way Senate procedures, standing orders otherwise operate, to see if there are stronger deterrents that can be put in place to stop these Greens or Greens defectors from bringing an embarrassment upon the proceedings of the Parliament and the Senate in the way they seek to heckle and interject against visiting guests who have been invited to address in the Parliament.
David Penberthy: Mm, interesting stuff. Liberal Senator Simon Birmingham, who’s also the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, thank you very much for joining us this morning for Breaking at 8.
Simon Birmingham: Thanks, guys. It’s my pleasure.
[ENDS]